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Mouse
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Is someone trying to pull a fast one?
Sold me mam's Sky+ box in mint condition as she has upgraded to HD. No faults with the box and fully tested before I listed it.
Sold and now the buyer is asking for a refund. Says it is overheating, still running in the background when in Standby mode and the remote doesn't work.
Told him that the fault must lie with the courier, as no faults before shipped.
Says me as a seller should offer a refund.
I think he's pulling the fast one, got faulty box that he wants to give me his old broken one and keep the newish working one.
I have a feeling it's a fast one, my mam will have the paperwork for the box somewhere, I have the serial number and asked if he wants to send it back he can do, but if it doesn't match then I'm not giving a refund.
I'm not out to do people over, I'm a genuine honest and reliable seller and only go on now and then to get rid of stuff I no longer want or have upgraded the item I am selling.
I communicated with the buyer and got this response
Quote:
hi i hope you don't think i'm pulling a fast one by saying about the serial number on the box, i don't take to kindly to this, and because of that i'm going to get in touch with Ebay to see what they have got to say about it. With regards to raising a claim with parcelforce, it's not me who has to claim for any damage to the itam, you have the itam back, refund me and then you claim, as you have all the receipts for proof of posting.
I know that eBay is now all for the buyer and no longer for the seller, he is returning the item and expecting a full refund.
I'm amazed at this guys inept ability to spell, so how he knows a Sky+ box is working is beyond me.
Sorry for the long post.
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FilthyRaider
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Were you a Business seller like moi, you would now simply HAVE to refund. We get no choice.
The issue here is obviously all going to be about 'Buyer Beware', i.e. the item was second hand. Damage in the post is unlikely, and even harder to claim - you need packaging etc.
It could be simple things like where he has the box (is it ventilated?) and if he has put new batteries in the remote. People are THAT dumb. We get some right ones every week. (Sold a watch and got a email saying 'It don't work!'. Tried winding it? No answer and nothing heard of since).
We do get the odd one trying it on, it is not unexpected.
One side: You could offer him the chance to send it back, but he pays postage as he has to, and refund him the cost of the item, and if you find it is faulty then okay, but if not, well again, not much you can do but resell it.
The other is explain you sold a working item in good condition and, sorry, you are sticking to your guns. AVOID getting into a slanging match, it is NOT worth it. Let him put in a PayPal claim and they will either go one way or the other, it's impossible to say. The worst thing that can happen here is you end up refunding BUT he must send it back, or you win and he negs you.
Me? Well ignoring my 'Business Seller' and looking at the Private issue side I would personally (but very politely) tell him that the box was fine when sent. Ask if he has installed it right, is it sited right, has he put new batteries in the remote? Then I might accept it back - he pays postage - and if ANYTHING is different I would tell him to send payment for postage to have it back! Otherwise I would refund the item cost.
HOWEVER, switch sides for one moment.
Say you bought it. Say it arrived faulty. How would you want to be treated? And to repeat again, AVOID getting nasty - your first mistake was telling him what you suspected. The guy might be genuine - how do you feel now? Course if that was his plan, he might now be scuppered and using the old 'speak to eBay' ploy.
Do you know what eBay will say? Communicate with each other...............
By the way, spelling or not, he is right about the claiming - but I think it is just NOT that.
One example I have - we sell an item in various amounts and sold 30 to a guy in Blackpool. They email to say the items arrived crushed and only 15 were okay - can I refund? Yes, I can, I say. Just send the packing and broken ones back. They email back to say they have chucked them away. Okay, get them out of bin. Can't. Er, why? And so on.
They went to PayPal who told them 'Send the items back and seller will refund'. Anyway, they then say they have sent them back but can't give a tracking number. PayPal award to me. So IF it is all bull, you will have scope.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
Edited by FilthyRaider (Sun Apr 26 2009 09:00 PM)
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Mouse
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Reg'd: Thu
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Quote:
Were you a Business seller like moi, you would now simply HAVE to refund. We get no choice.
No, private seller.
Quote:
It could be simple things like where he has the box (is it ventilated?) and if he has put new batteries in the remote. People are THAT dumb. We get some right ones every week. (Sold a watch and got a email saying 'It don't work!'. Tried winding it? No answer and nothing heard of since).
Yeah I advised him all about how Sky plus works, just in case he hasn't used it before, i.e. it's a hard drive in a small enclosure, always remains on, slight background noise on some boxes and new batteries or replacement remote which Sky will issue for FREE if you talk to them politely and with a bit of banter and barter.
Quote:
One side: You could offer him the chance to send it back, but he pays postage as he has to, and refund him the cost of the item, and if you find it is faulty then okay, but if not, well again, not much you can do but resell it.
It's exactly what I want, but he won't send me the serial in advance, which is strange.
Quote:
HOWEVER, switch sides for one moment.
Say you bought it. Say it arrived faulty. How would you want to be treated? And to repeat again, AVOID getting nasty - your first mistake was telling him what you suspected. The guy might be genuine - how do you feel now? Course if that was his plan, he might now be scuppered and using the old 'speak to eBay' ploy.
Of course I would be miffed, but I would approach this entirely different to this buyer, I would ask if there were any faults omitted from the listing as the box is now faulty, I would ask what guarantees the seller has, check what we could agree to, rather than ignore the sellers questions by ranting for a refund.
I would pass the serial number over to the seller, anything to prove I wasn't trying to pull a fast one.
Quote:
They went to PayPal who told them 'Send the items back and seller will refund'. Anyway, they then say they have sent them back but can't give a tracking number. PayPal award to me. So IF it is all bull, you will have scope.
I didn't hold my guns and asked him to return and will wait and see when it arrives.
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FilthyRaider
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In the words of Michael Winner - Calm down, dear.
Remember, I am only the person trying to help - you asked and I took the time to respond.
Now imagine being a Business Seller on eBay, where the success of sales is in direct relation to being able to pay your bills...........Welcome to my world. We can sometimes get one of these once every week.
Having it back is probably the best thing to do as I think I said in the first reply.
I personally think you will either never hear from this person again or it will come back with nothing wrong.
However the only point I would make is sometimes you have to take the benefit of the doubt, take a chill pill and see what happens.
Please keep the post updated - I answer eBay queries as best as my limited experience can, but it helps enormously to hear what happened as the outcome.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Mouse
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Reg'd: Thu
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I am lost as to where I am coming across stressed, but I have appreciated your help. The written word is always misinterpreted though isn't it, for reference see anyone who has translated religious books.
Yeah I fully understand how it would be for a business seller, I have worked with the general public for the last 16 years and dealt with a lot of folk fairly similar to this person and a lot worse to boot!
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FilthyRaider
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You're just experiencing 'Seller Stress'.
I personally am just fascinated to know the outcome and I would be surprised if it is not one of the options I said: Nothing wrong or you actually never hear anything again.
One extra point is just to forget it now until something 'happens' - ie the ball is firmly in their court, let them worry about it.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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FilthyRaider
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Just an interesting follow on.
Sold an old style pocket watch Wednesday, buyer got it today.
Got the email 'It does not work'. Okay, so sent instructions politely how to 'work' a wind up watch. Just had the reply 'I know what type of watch it is, but it does not work'.
Interesting that we ran the watch that night to test it with no issues. I imagine he has either not wound it right OR has broken the spring by over winding it.
I have emailed back to say 'Fine, send it back but in the instance of either of the last two cases you WILL be getting it back'.
So like you I am now waiting for something back I KNOW was working when I sent it............
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Mouse
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Reg'd: Thu
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Some idiots out there.
Well the item has come back to me and I've just tested the remote, which works on my SKY+HD box, which is a Samsung and not even the same type of PVR, tested the returned Sky+ box which is an Amstrad upstairs on my Sky connection in the bedroom and lo and behold a fully working PVR with working remote (works on two PVRs and not one)
No issues whatsoever so the moron basically had no idea how Sky Plus works.
Paypal have emailed asking me to refund the idiot his money they have deducted the total cost out of my account.
I am looking for their telephone number to give them my side of things.
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Mouse
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I have just got off the phone from PayPal and they have advised it is up to me, what I refund, which I found strange.
I have sent the following email out to the buyer.
Hello
I have tested the Sky box on my own equipment and it's working perfect, as it was when I sold it to you.
The remote works on my SkyHD box, as well as this box along with my mam's new SKyHD box, so really confused with what you reported as being faulty with the remote.
Sky sent one of their own engineers to my mam's house (where the box is now) and tested it with his own equipment and reported no faults, again we are still unsure as to the faults you claim this device has.
If you didn't want to win the box or could not work it, at least you could have been truthful on the matter and we could have discussed things more civilly, in fact I tried to help, however because you took offence to my request for the serial number, you failed to listen to any help I offered.
I have spoken to PayPal this morning, regarding the dispute you have opened and I have advised that you can either have this box back, as it is fully working, or a refund of £XX which is the cost of the item less delivery.
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FilthyRaider
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Well done. Stuck to your guns and you have effectively not lost out. Okay there will be odds and ends but you have the box back.
Now block the clown from buying from you again. Then relist it, you will most likely sell it again to someone from planet Earth.
Me? My pocket watch is on the way back, the buyer has been scathing in my advice (telling me he has had two for 'years), but I expect to get it back Tuesday or Wednesday with the main spring overwound.
Unfortunately I will have to replace it, smile and send it off, but I'll be damned if he gets his postage back. Oh, and he's already blocked.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Mouse
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Reg'd: Thu
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Here's his last nonsense.
Quote:
i'm sorry but i'm not having it, the box or remote was faulty, don't you think i would have keep it if it worked ok, i can well do without all this hasal.
i'm not goimg to eccept just £31.00 as it cost me £11.99 to send the thing back to you.
I would like the the full amount or i'll escalate the claim with paypal.
He can do without the hassle? It's he that's hassled me and failed miserably. I've asked if he'd like video evidence of the device working.
Already blocked the idiot as soon as he said it wasn't working.
Glad I am not alone on this issue, but it shows how moronic people are.
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FilthyRaider
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Fine, let him do it. A claim is more hassle than its worth for him.
You get them, unfortunately. Hopefully your next buyer will be normal.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Mouse
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I await PayPals response on this matter.
I hope it is a lot of hassle. In my anger, with him, which has just arose today, I am feeling as though I want to take him to court on the matter.
I don't get how, me, my mother and Sky state that it's working fine, yet he won't believe it. I have no reason to lie, as I said I am prepared to video it and prove it is working.
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FilthyRaider
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I know you might not like me to say it, but chill. It ain't worth it.
I get the same feeling every time I get the email telling me something hasn't arrived or something is wrong. But I now carefully look at it, and then take the best action required.
The best thing to do is sort it out to everyone's satisfaction - in this case the twit will just have to satisfy himself. I feel you have done all that is needed. You have refunded the item cost when it was NOT faulty, so WHY should you pay him any postage. It's £11.99 - not worth the fuss. Let him rot a bit.
Personally I'd close all communication with him, as you will not do yourself any favours and could even make it worse. I had that just recently with my little problem, and having got sarcastic replies to any advice I finally just switched off. Yes, I'll replace it, but just send it back and stop jerking around.
IF a PayPal dispute is opened, when you put your side make sure you have all the facts. A good way to do this is open a WORD document now and type up everything - remember someone at PayPal will read it, so be factual, avoid tearing into the other person, but STATE your case. If a dispute is opened all you have to do is Copy and Paste - one less hassle. As you will have chance to read it, spell check it etc. it will simply read and look better.
Final point is if you can get some sort of written confirmation from SKY or at the very least include the engineer's name and contact in written response, I think you will have a pretty good position.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Mouse
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Can you believe this?
Quote:
After careful consideration of the evidence provided in the case detailed
below, we have completed our investigation and decided in favour of the
buyer. Under the terms of our User Agreement, we have debited the following
amount from your PayPal account as a refund to the buyer: xxxx GBP
I've asked for how they have drawn this conclusion and against what evidence.
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FilthyRaider
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There are many many cases on the eBay Forums about PayPal decisions going against what appears to be right. Have they debited you the P&P now?
I understand you sent him back the item cost already.
My case got a bit clearer today:
Watch came back and after a couple of winds I couldn't get it to go. Then I noticed the buyer had not really wound it much at all considering it could not get it to 'go'. So I wound it more and it's now been running for 12 hours without a hitch.
I have had to send another AND refund his postage for returning it - he never asked but as a Business Seller it makes sense to do so.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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FilthyRaider
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Just a follow on to PayPal disputes.
Last night I went on to find someone had filed a 'non-receipt' against me. Having never heard from any buyer I checked.
It was an item (a journal) bought on 10th May, sent on 12th by Recorded Delivery and feedback left by the buyer (positive) on 13th. Then it gets interesting. The buyer was suspended by eBay and having been on less than 30 days ALL their feedback left was removed.
Her comments on Paypal are quite funny (now). She posted a claim at 8.10pm then escalated it to a full claim at 8.11 quoting 'Seller will not respond to emails' - she hadn't sent any.
I emailed her and low and behold she came back. First her boyfriend had left feedback 'accidentally' then she said she had never left it and I could check - she had obviously realised what eBay did.
Never mind. Fall back on Recorded Delivery, eh? Last log on the Royal Mail site is that it was accepted at the Post Office on 12th.................This is now her main line of attack. She has ignored queries about her suspension and feedback.
Basically the scenario appears to be postman shoves item through letterbox with no signature. Buyer very happy, then gets suspended, then decides to take revenge on me (!) by posting a false claim.
Currently chasing up with Royal Mail, but don't hold much hope.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Mouse
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Mate you can't win can you?
You see these are the sort of issues that make me knock eBay on the head, and after this fiasco, is exactly what I did.
Closed my account with them and PayPal.
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FilthyRaider
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We had an even worse one last night. A Greek buyer placed a VERY big order for (let's say) widgets - 200 small and 250 large. So packed box (took three goes to get the right size - extra large!) and shipped to Greece (easy with Parcel2Go via Parcelforce as they took it from the porch).
Two weeks he emails to say 'Where are the 250?' and I check tracking, slightly worried as I used Euro 48 hour. Parcelforce show it in Greece but the local agent stating 'addressee unvailable' on 11th May. Great.
Anyway, he later tells me he has the 200 small, just wants the parcel with the 250 large.
Now here, I hand honours to the missus who points out to me 'Didn't you pack them in the SAME box?'
Yes, I did, and the clown hadn't opened the box enough to check...........Large underneath the small.
Panic over on that one.
The other is still going on, and I will update here as I feel it can be useful.
Sorry you felt the need to shut your account. I can't really defend PayPal and eBay but I do feel it is all to due with the odd clown spoiling it for everyone. Apparently they are ALL around the world...................
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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greysts
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Not strictly part of this thread but eBay have done themselves no favours in my opinion by getting a judgement that they are not responsible for checking if people are selling stolen goods. It is common practice these days to have the 'Shop-in-Shop' system. If I go into Debenhams and buy some stolen software from one of those traders I expect Debenhams to shut the shop down straight away. Apparently I can buy stolen goods on eBay and they don't care. I wouldn't be so annoyed if it was difficult to spot but it isn't. Do a search for Microsoft XP and you know that anything less than £50 is stolen. It ain't rocket science.
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