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krishan
new user
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 7
Loc: Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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Hi everyone
The http://www.swapandplay.co.uk website has been updated with less striking colours. The original colours were too bright on some monitors. Hope the new grey and dark orange is better.
Thanks, Krishan :-)
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bricat
HijackThis Helper
Reg'd: Wed
Posts: 28258
Loc: belfast
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http://www.swapandplay.co.uk
"We don't like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out."
- Decca Records Rejecting the Beatles, in 1962 
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krishan
new user
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 7
Loc: Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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thanks for creating the link... :-)
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safeTsurfa
regular
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 693
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Really hate to rain on your parade, but borrowing is in fact illegal. It is sharing, and whether it's media or software, the licence forbids sharing. What your members can do is permanently transfer the licence and ownership of the item to another party as long as they remove it and all backup copies from their own machine. Nice try, but sorry, "temporary" exchange is not allowed by the publishers and you could land in big trouble if they took an interest in your site.
Safety Tips for
Kids and Teens
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krishan
new user
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 7
Loc: Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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There will normally be no problem when someone buys a CD or DVD and passes the same physical disc to a friend. It is up to every individual to decide who is their friend.
"Unauthorised lending is prohibited" is basically what is written on CDs and DVDs. But not all lending is prohibited.
The BPI (British Phonographic Industry) is the national trade body for the UK record industry representing hundreds of UK record labels - big and small. An Assistant Internet Investigator at the BPI Anti Piracy Unit said, "It is okay to lend the product privately to you family and friends, but you must not lend it publicly. You must not make a copy."
"Publicly means for example, not giving it to a Library or a College where the general public can listen to it and borrow. Basically you're okay to give the disc to family and friends on the understanding they listen to the Cd and do not make copies or give the disc to organisations similar to those listed above."
The Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT) also said "Regarding your query, I would advise that the dvd can be lent to family/friends for viewing. Offences would only be committed if a large group of people are gathered together in a hall at a public viewing of this dvd in which case a licence would be required."
The Federation Against Copyright Theft http://www.fact-uk.org
FACT, as an industry representative body, has been evidencing the involvement of organised crime groups in video and other optical disc counterfeiting in recent years and has made this information available to the UK Government and the authorities.
When you join SwapandPlay.com you are not giving your CD or DVD to anyone or any organisation. Individual members keep hold of their media and have full control. The website simply allows members to contact one another, having seen a typed out list of media titles that they own. Members have to physically meet up with their friends and this is a private and personal event, whether or not the exchange of media takes place.
Buying and then borrowing expensive DVDs and CDs from friends, without making a copy, is the best free alternative to illegal downloading.
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TheFatControlleR
Forum Admin
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 6554
Loc: Megatripolis
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So, in that case, all that remains is to define family & friends.
As we all know, such legal terms are so vague as to lead to confusion - until some poor sap is dragged in front of the bench for a judgement, and hopefully, clarity. And let's not forget, ignorance is no defence - even if we really are ignorant of the legal intent. 
Personally, I think you're on a sticky wicket (but I'm not a qualified advocate). I don't know how you posed the question to these organisations - "can I lend to friends & family" is a mile away from "can I lend to someone I found on an internet site, the purpose of which is to introduce likeminded people for the personal lending of digital media"?
I can see the arguement developing; i.e. everyone's a stranger until they meet and become friends! But the question would remain, with regards the intent of the site itself.
Be careful. 
 TFC
Nothing is a problem for me... 
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putasolutions
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 12155
Loc: Infinity and beyond
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A definition of "friend" has yet to be outlined by a court of law, and the question as to how extended a "family" is needs to be addressed as well.
Theoretically, we are all related in someway eventually
Of All the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
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Jonny555
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 5303
Loc: Cheshire, England
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I think your on dodgy ground and wouldn't like to try and defend it in a court of law.
OK when these people meet up they may become friends, but why did they meet up in the first place?
Your site is asking for members to share their cd's and dvd's to each other. These people are probably not friends in reality.
I would be very careful if I was you. One thing to bear in mind, have you got the cash behind you just in case you are taken to court?
I would strongly advise you to consult a solicitor to be certain of where you stand.
Amateur Watercolour Community
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krishan
new user
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 7
Loc: Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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thank you everyone. i know i'm on unchartered territory. i will try to sleep well tonight having digested your comments, lol :-)
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TheFatControlleR
Forum Admin
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 6554
Loc: Megatripolis
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Well, I for one think this an inneresting project, and I'm sure many here would be keen to learn of your findings as you progress - keep in touch!
Good luck with your endeavours. 
TFC
Nothing is a problem for me...
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putasolutions
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 12155
Loc: Infinity and beyond
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Ahh Jonny, does one have to physically meet to be considered a friend?
I consider the many people I have met on this and other forums to be friends, yet I haven't met all of you
Of All the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
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greysts
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 17732
Loc: Colchester
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Surely the key is in this statement;
An Assistant Internet Investigator at the BPI Anti Piracy Unit said, "It is okay to lend the product privately to your family and friends, but you must not lend it publicly. You must not make a copy."
You can't get more public lending than putting all the contacts on an internet site and telling everybody you've got CD's to share. No doubt lawyers will have an interesting time defining the word friend but an online dictionary says a friend is 'a person you know well and regard with affection and trust'. In the majority of cases you don't even know the swapees (?) name let alone whether he or she is trustworthy. It's an interesting way of trying to beat the recording industry but as someone has already said, get yourself a lawyer because you're going to need one.
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Jonny555
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 5303
Loc: Cheshire, England
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I too consider many here to be my friends, but the difference is we have all been in communication for some time. In our minds eye we have been able to form an image of each other built up over time. Many of us use each others real names when chatting. A few of us have communicated away from this site as well.
My worries are that people are being bought together on the premise of lending each other dvd's and cd's. I doubt very many at all would be 'friends' if this sharing wasn't going on.
I'll stick with my concerns over this project.
Amateur Watercolour Community
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safeTsurfa
regular
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 693
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That is the very reason I raised this question. As greysts and Jonny said "people are being bought together on the premise of lending each other dvd's and cd's". This is the same premise when using the peer to peer networks, which like your site, also did not supply the shared items, merely provided the means for people to connect and initiate the exchange process.
As we have seen, not hosting the files themselves was not sufficient defence to prevent them landing in trouble, including being shut down in certain cases. Interesting you mention the BPI, as the BPI has recently been targetting pirates and file sharers. So I am not sure you should assume the advice their representative gave you is as broad as you wish for, since their action elsewhere is suggesting the opposite may be true.
As Jonny advised, do speak to a lawyer who specialises in both copyright/licensing issues and Internet law, and get a qualified defintive opinion on what you are doing. It may cost money you can ill afford to do this, but will be a whole lot less than the fees for defence counsel if the project goes pear shaped on you.
I think everyone who has responded wishes you well, it certainly is an inventive approach to the problem. However, if sharing or exchanging on the level your members would do via your site is deemed unlawful, then you will almost certainly be brought to account, because as site owner you will be considered to have encouraged what was shown to be illegal activity.
Safety Tips for
Kids and Teens
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krishan
new user
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 7
Loc: Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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Hi everyone. Thanks for all your perspectives, advice and well wishes. I will be updating the wordings on the website soon and will let you know when it's done! Cheers, Krishan.
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t34WRJ
new user
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 7
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Hi all
Getting back to the topic *ahem* I think the web site itself looks pretty good. Other than the grey that is! Perhaps you could try to change it to a lighter colour that also compliments the other elements of the web site.
Also, the <TITLE> tag looks a little 'spammy' which happens when you repeat yourself.
Also your meta keywords and description tags are far too long. Most search engines no longer use these for search purposes. Instead, make sure that these are accurate and non-repetitive.
Cheers
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