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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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I won a football cup final programme (12 years old) last week and have
just received it and am not happy.
Front cover has white marks on it and the spine of the programme
is pretty well damaged.
It arrived packed up very well (cardboard + padded envelope) so
was not damaged in posting.
His description is "mint just like the day i bought it".
I have emailed him and will not refund as he quotes
"in my opinon its mint but if you see it as any different thats
not my problem".
He has already left me a positive feedback.
I paid via paypal so whats my next step?
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abbafan1972
regular
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 1535
Loc: Birmingham, United Kingdom
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If your not happy with the item then don't just leave it. It doesn't matter if the seller has already left you positive F/B.
Follow this link Here and click "report and item not received or not as described", fill in the item number and follow the prompts.
As you paid by paypal then it will automatically go through them. Don't send the item back until you are instructed by paypal to do so.
Keep records of emails sent back and forth between you and the seller, you are better off communicating via Ebay messages then if he gets funny with you, Ebay can see these messages and you can report any abusive ones.
Keep photos of the program as evidence of the condition and remember to send the program back recorded so you have a tracking number.
Let us know how you get on.
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Dell Inspiron 1720 running Vista Home premium SP1, Firefox 3.0.3
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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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I will do as you advised and let you know what happens.
Many thanks.
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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Good advice from Abbafan. I would leave feedback AFTER the matter is resolved/or not. Whether you leave positive or negative (or neutral) is your personal choice, but when you leave it I would mention the problem and if it was sorted - obviously you will only know at that point.
Give the seller a chance to right the problem, but early signs are you should be reporting this. I buy cheap games for the kids consoles and the word 'Mint' is used with astonishing regularity. Then they turn up with no manual or scratches - it is not on.
The Item Not Recieved link can also be found in the drop down box next to the item in MY EBAY (as in Your version of MY EBAY) and all the item details are prefilled that way.
Check the listing carefully - are the marks mentioned, do they show on the photo?
I'd be interested to hear the outcome too, so let us know. Of course the problem you always get with footie programmes is they are bought 'Mint' on the day then scrunched up after being read during the match, passed around a bit and then put to one side. He obviously needs educating on the use of the word............good lesson here to all prospective eBay sellers - be HONEST.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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greysts
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 17967
Loc: Colchester
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There exists a formal agreed definition of how the condition of a second hand book should be described. Have a look at this. You will see that As New, Fine or Mint all mean that is is without faults or defects. Your purchase clearly did not fall within that definition. It sounds as if it should have been 'Near Fine' with a description of the faults. I would be inclined to quote that to PayPal when you write to them.
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Do you know that we're all in line for succession to the throne? Really?
Well, if forty-eight million, two hundred thousand, seven hundred and one people died I'd be Queen.
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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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I have to wait for 10 days to pass before i can start
the ball rolling with ebay as just tried so that will
be this saturday.
The marks and damage on the programme are not visable in picture.
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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If the marks and damage are not visible in the picture that is a big plus and tends to hint that the picture is not of the one you bought - it's either a 'stock' picture nicked off someone else or they have sent you a different copy of the programme and kept the better one. Check their listings and feedback to see if they have sold or are selling anything else. Would be interesting to see if the feedback has any notes from anyone in same position - it won't always be a neg as people don't like to leave it.
The wait time on eBay is a pain. I've just had to wait about 15 days to get my fee back off some clown one hasn't paid and I have another one about to start................
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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abbafan1972
regular
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 1535
Loc: Birmingham, United Kingdom
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I know what you mean. The amount of days you have to wait before opening disputes is crazy. Had to wait for the 8th day to open an unpaid dispute against the buyer of my laptop. Now I have to wait for Saturday before I can close the dispute and get a FVF credit and a free relist (That will be another 2 weeks or so wasted).
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Dell Inspiron 1720 running Vista Home premium SP1, Firefox 3.0.3
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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A very valid point that many people do not know (or rather a few points):
IF the buyer responds to the UPI you can immediately close it and recover your fee. If they NEVER respond (via eBay)you can not only close it BUT also leave whatever feedback you want and they cannot leave rated feedback. It might sound brutal but I do leave negative for anyone that does not pay and doesn't respond - I think you have to show others what they are like. You can also choose to leave an Unpaid Strike on their account. Three of these and they are kicked off eBay.
Once I had a buyer who bought three items, never paid, never responded and the three strikes I issued kicked them off. And good riddance!
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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abbafan1972
regular
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 1535
Loc: Birmingham, United Kingdom
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Thanks. They have not responded at all. I tried phoning them a few days ago and all I got was his voicemail, so I just left a message about what he intends to do about paying.
I was waiting for the tick to appear on the dispute to say that I am entitled to a FVF credit before closing the dispute. Then of course he will get a big fat neg off me!
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Dell Inspiron 1720 running Vista Home premium SP1, Firefox 3.0.3
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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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UPDATE:
I have now opened up a dispute with Ebay/Paypal and am
awaiting a reply from seller.
Will keep you up to date with what happens.
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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Good stuff - good to see someone standing up!
On disputes it is a good idea to keep an idea on the date. I know on ones I file on Non Payers you can click Close Dispute and it will give you options (for the first eight days only the first is open which closes it saying 'you have agreed to complete' or something). Once the others are highlighted you can usually escalate it further. Sometimes if they respond you can immediately escalate it, but keep the thread updated - these sorts of things are always useful to others.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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UPDATE;
Seller has emailed me saying im being too picky and to close
dispute he will refund the cost of the programme and nothing
else.
He also wants it returned via recorded delivery.
Surley im entitled to ask for my postage costs on top of
the programme.
I have emailed him asking about postage.
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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IF he is listed as a business seller (unlikely as most people do not do this on eBay thinking they can avoid the Inland Revenue) he HAS to abide by Distance Selling Regs. This can be a real swine if you are a seller as someone has the right to a refund of item, refund of postage paid AND refund of postage paid back to them.
Explain you want item cost, postage you paid and postage to return covered FIRST then you will send it back. If not carry on with the dispute and see how that goes.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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UPDATE;
He will not refund any postage i paid and still wants me
to return it recorded delivery.
Also even though he is replying to me he is replying via
email and not through the dispute console does this matter?
It doesnt look like he is going to give in so if i put in
for a refund through paypal does that include the postage
i paid or just the cost of the programme?
Sorry for all the questions!
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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If you up the anti to escalate it through PayPal it should include ALL the payments made. When you escalate the claim I believe you enter the figures. If he then wants it back when the claim is settled, he will have to pay you. It would be much easier if he just agreed to refund and added on return postage. Maybe email him and say that you feel as the fault is his in a misleading description you want refunding in full and an addition for return postage as is dictated under Distance Selling Regulations. That might put the frighteners up him. Have you also pointed out that the photo is not of the item you have received as the damage is not visible?
Other solutions to think over: Will he refund part of the cost so you pay the right price for a marked programme? Or will you agree to cover half the return postage and then technically you both pay a little (and you have to put that down to experience)? A final one is one that I use when I bid on duplicate items in the hope of winning one and typical win both! I sell one back on eBay.
(The first one is a good one - I sold some items on eBay and mixed up inches and centimetres! Doh! The buyer was quite upset but was soon happy when I offered a full refund OR I would refund half the price to settle the problem - he took the half refund and kept the items and the matter was closed amicably).
From a sellers point of view, we consider ourselves a business on eBay (tax return each year) so we adopt the rules of running a business. Obviously when you buy off someone selling his odds and ends you do run the risk of this happening BUT eBay rules clearly state that an item MUST be described correctly so you ought to have the upper hand. To be honest, if you list 'with slight water marks' or whatever, stuff still sells and you get no complaints. I will not buy off anyone that states they will not accept returns.
On the opposing point of view when we get anyone emailing with a problem we do ask for the item to be returned for inspection, offering a FULL refund and the cost of return postage WHEN we get the item back. Two reasons for this: 99.99% of problems are caused in the post so we can claim, but we need to see the item first. This also stops dead the cronies trying it on, and you do get them (I know you do not fall into that category but they are about).
See what he says and then escalate it when you can if the matter is not sorted. If you agree a deal where you return the item then use Recorded Delivery as you have a method of proving postage AND delivery.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
Edited by FilthyRaider (Wed Aug 15 2007 09:03 PM)
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Stormtrooper
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 121
Loc: England
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UPDATE;
I am getting nowhere with this seller so have put in for
a refund on Paypal so just have to wait to see what happens,
didnt know Paypal may take up to a month though!
Seller has since emailed saying "do what you want" as he still
insists programme is mint.Also he has photos of it which will
prove it is.
Like i said before the photo on ebay was so small you could
not see anything wrong with it and indeed did look mint which
is why i bidded on it.
In Paypals hands now.
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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They do not have the fastest claims system known to man - the counter side is that it generally stops all but the most genuine claims. Strange guy you are dealing with, but you do get them in life. See what the outcome is, and like everyone I would be interested in the decision.
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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Baz94
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 749
Loc: Kent
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Sounds like the guy needs a bloody slap but then again, I am immature.
People like this really get on my wick! They know full well they are in the wrong but don't give a damn and rip buyers off.
I really hope you do get somewhere with this! Good luck.
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FilthyRaider
regular
Reg'd: Thu
Posts: 506
Loc: It's dark very dark.......
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Calm down, Baz. If the eBay and PayPal system lets him down, we move up to slapping....................
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I loved my grandmother very much.......and she fetched a good price on eBay.
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