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jonnymac1979
regular


Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 521
Loc: Liverpool
Liverpool Are Magic Revamped
      #295341 - Sun Jul 23 2006 12:14 AM

Hello everyone

I must admit I have been working on this website for about two years. I always had an idea in my mind that I wanted to learn web design, and the different ways of doing it. First of all I started with some awful freewebs editor that I'm embarassed to admit I went near. I did a site on Euro 2004 as I'm a big football fan and that seemed a good idea to use as a subject to learn the basics, the right's and wrongs, the do's and don'ts.... in fact the less said about it the better.

Shortly after that, I started making simple animated GIF's using Serif Photoplus 5.5. Two years ago, animated GIF's much like today were being vehemently frowned upon, a relic from the days of early browsers, early geocities websites, with big flashy graphics everywhere that made people get away from the site ASAP.

So why build a site full of animated GIF's?

The reason being was that being a member of several Liverpool Football Club message boards and forums, most members seemed to have static avatars or small animated GIF's as their online personality. So I thought I would have a crack at something different. Instead of little smileys as avatars, what about LFC goals, or LFC moments, Robbie Fowler lifting the FA Cup, Steven Gerrard blasting in from 30 yards.... there were so many moments to choose from.

Another reason was that back in 2004, there were predictions that 100MB connections would be breaking through by the time the world hit January 2006, so animated GIF's by that time would not have much effect on page loading speed. At the time I was on a 750kbps connection and that was fast for the time. Not sure if 100MB is the case yet anywhere in the country having not researched the broadband speeds for a few weeks (you now how fast these stats change anyway....)

I acquired a copy of Animation Shop 3.0 and the Macromedia Suite MX 2004 which has a VERY steep learning curve and persevered until I was building avatars for forums. The rest is history.

Two years later, my site is currently on it's third design. The first was very, VERY unfriendly to dial up users. It consisted of my Blueyonder page filled with about twenty animated GIF's, about 100 frames large and 500kb+ in size. People were complimenting me on the site, but saying that it would not last in the state it was in. It was a learning curve. I changed the site and made it so if they wanted to see the animation, they clicked a static image. Problem solved.

Then I didn't like the design etc....... So I changed it again. All the time, all the way, learning new stuff as I went along. It was probably worth doing it wrong just so I could figure out a better way for next time.

Anyway, after creating just an avatars website, I received an e-mail from a person all the way from China saying that the animations made great mobile phone screensavers. Most applicable mobile phones use GIF's as screensavers and it was an idea that had not ocurred to me.

So the next step for my website was to market it as an avatar/mobile phone screensaver site. Then on from that came a static mobile phone wallpaper section. Finally I added a wallpaper section. I have only just completed the the first pages of the two new sections in the last couple of weeks.

I know it's not perfect. I am a member of another message board on web design skills and I am not posting it on there because if it isn't compliant with the W3 standards on CSS, XHTML, DHTML, XML (which it isn't and is a million miles away from to be perfectly honest....) and all these other acronyms I've not even heard of, they gang up on you and crucify you for it, and then start taking the mickey out of you. And that's the Liverpool fans!!!! Then they start saying it's not compatible with all these browsers I've not even heard of!!! Really snobby. I mean who's perfect anyway? You'd think everybody needed to be a professional to make a website!!!!!

Anyway, I would like your feedback on my site. Like I say, I know it's not perfect, there are things I'm aware of already like the fact that you always have to go back to the index to go to a different section but I have addressed that. But if I ever get round to making a fourth re-design of the site, your comments can help me make right what is currently wrong. Please though, give me some compliments in your replies, not jut pointing out the faults!!! Even if you are an Everton or Manchester United fan.

Or an AC Milan fan. Five times, baby!!!!

For example there will be 24 buttons on each page, each representing a page in the relevant section. Well, buttons 22, 23 and 24 will direct you to a different section on every page you are on. I just haven't added them yet because it would look stupid because the site isn't big enough to accomodate them yet if you see what I mean when you have a look. Besides, the main banner always takes you back to the Index page.

The mobile phone screensavers look really smart on my brothers phone as my phone is not compatible believe it or not!!!! I'm currently using the Steven Gerrard wallpaper on my PC right now so I am happy with my work.

Please leave feedback. Thank you very much. I will try and reply to every post made.

The site is at http://www.liverpoolaremagic.co.uk or you can click my signature.

John

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emailuser
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Reg'd: Wed
Posts: 190
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #295352 - Sun Jul 23 2006 12:58 AM

Never knew animated gifs could be used as mobile phone screen savers and you learn something every day .

Clearly you have put a fair amount of work into the website and its a shame you use a black background as that kinda spoils the look of the website IMHO .

Most commercial websites use a white background for a variety of good reasons .

Putting that aside though , Its clear you web authoring skills are being held back because you dont know any scripting languages yet .

I know learning a scripting language is a very hard thing to do because at the beginning theres so much to learn - but once you do learn its the sort of thing you could kick yourself for not doing sooner .

My suggestion to you would be to buy a couple of php beginner books and start tinkering around .

- in 3 months time you will have learnt the basics and will be able to write small scripts

- in 6 months time you will be able to write almost anything you want

Trust me when i say you will never look back if you do .


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jonnymac1979
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Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 521
Loc: Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: emailuser]
      #295355 - Sun Jul 23 2006 01:29 AM

Thank you for replying.

I have had that levelled at me before about the black background. Due to the fact that the site is about Liverpool though, I thought a website with too much Red in it would drive even more visitors away than a Black one would. Too much on the eyes and all that.

I'll be honest with you though, I'm going to carry this website on until it's a mammoth, even if it's years away when I decide enough is enough; and it probably will end up a white background, with splashes of red and even less splashes of grey for effect. They are essentially the only colours I have used. Red, Black, White and Grey.

Your comment about PHP was intruiging though because I have had a look at a site that some kid in some school has designed and it is simply amazing. I don't want to post the link on here even though it is an excellent resource for any Photoshop users, but if you PM me I will show you. It's because he offers web design as a service as well as his tutorial site and I know the rules about commercial sites regarding this Web User message board.

It is a Photoshop tutorial site and this kid is only in school, yet he is delivering tutorials on web design, Photoshop and Flash, Illustrator, the whole works!!!!! I'm 26 years old and I'm in awe of this kid. If school kids (albeit this one is GOOD) can understand this stuff there is surely hope for me!!!! His web address has .php insted of .co.uk as well so he is versed on scripting. I haven't a clue about PHP but I understand simple CMS's are made using PHP. So once you have a template, you load the content into it? Is that right? Maybe I should buy that book you mentioned......

Bearing in mind my template is the same page in, page out, and my content is the GIF's, do you think PHP is the way forward? I don't mind altering the template if in the long run it is the best way to go. It will be a very long road though.........

Thanks

John

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jonnymac1979
regular


Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 521
Loc: Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #295359 - Sun Jul 23 2006 01:59 AM

By the way, if anyone is curious, this is a little time capsule of what my old site looked like compared to my new design.

Obviously, when I say new design, it is the same design, but I think it just looks so much better nowadays. The concept is the same but there is something 'newer' (obviously) about my new work.

The old site is hosted on my old Blueyonder free webspace. It was only about 30MB, but I stupidly forgot the FTP password and now I can't remove it from the internet. Plus, I don't live at the address anymore when I had the Blueyonder account so the account probably does't exist anymore to even log on using an FTP password.

So my old site will be around forever in internet limbo, unable to die, but forever reminding me of my lame attempts at web design, even if I become the Bill Gates of web design one distant day in the future, I can still be laughed at for this.

NEW DESIGN of Liverpool Are Magic

OLD DESIGN of Liverpool Are Magic

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emailuser
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Reg'd: Wed
Posts: 190
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #295361 - Sun Jul 23 2006 02:15 AM

I use paint shop pro myself :-)

Most snooker websites are green - but i've only ever seen one green website that looked good and the rest are terrible .

Perhaps you are putting the same sort of 'self limitating restriction' on yourself and if that true then its only yourself who is stopping you from using a white background .

I wouldnt really try to put php stuff on your website yet untill you learn some basics .

What you could do now however is start to rename all the files on your website from .html to .php as this will save you much time and hassle later on .

a .html webpage and a .php webpage will display in the exact same way and the one and only difference is the filename extention .

Assuming you change the links in your nav menus to suit - your website wont suddenly stop working :-)

index.html
index.php

Because of the way web servers are setup - you cant have both on your website .

www.blah.co.uk

If somebody clicks on the above - then the web server will search for several different filetypes in a precise order .

index.html
index.htm
index.php
index.asp
etc

And it will display whatever one it finds first .

Edited by emailuser (Sun Jul 23 2006 02:17 AM)


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evilmonkeyzz
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Reg'd: Sun
Posts: 2170
Loc: Newcastle
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #295745 - Mon Jul 24 2006 08:28 PM

I really like the site, being a Liverpool fan myself I love it!!!! The only thing I would say is that, on some of your pages such as the 'Club animations' page, there is more then one page of them, the pages are named, page 1, page 2, page 3 etc. I think that it would look a lot better and be easier to navigate around if the links were properly named, that is all I can see that I would change. Well Done!!!

On another note, what do you think of the new kit?:

image


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MouseModerator
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Posts: 6530
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Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: evilmonkeyzz]
      #295755 - Mon Jul 24 2006 09:26 PM

Good site, altough the red with white font doesn't work for me, or maybe an increase in the font size would be better. I think all your fonts need a size increase slightly.

Four new kits eh? Tut tut.

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jonnymac1979
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Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 521
Loc: Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: evilmonkeyzz]
      #296421 - Thu Jul 27 2006 09:39 PM

Quote:

I really like the site, being a Liverpool fan myself I love it!!!! The only thing I would say is that, on some of your pages such as the 'Club animations' page, there is more then one page of them, the pages are named, page 1, page 2, page 3 etc. I think that it would look a lot better and be easier to navigate around if the links were properly named, that is all I can see that I would change. Well Done!!!

On another note, what do you think of the new kit?:

image




What would you suggest then mate? Page 1, Page 2 etc... just keeps it simple, there is no description for each page, they're just GIFs. They are in not categories, as in a whole page of Steven Gerrard GIFs, a whole page of Xabi Alonso GIFs etc..... so I just called them by page number.

New kit? I always preferred Adidas kits to the Reebok ones anyway. I have to admit though that I am sorry to lose the kit we won the Champions League and FA Cup in. A legend of a kit. Fans will still be wearing replicas on the Kop in twenty years time.

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jonnymac1979
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Posts: 521
Loc: Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: Mouse]
      #296424 - Thu Jul 27 2006 09:53 PM

Thanks Mouse, I've thought about your comments and I will incorporate your suggestions into my next re-design. I hadn't noticed the white on red to be honest but I see what you mean now you have pointed it out, it's not the best on the eyes is it? I might make the content boxes white with red trim, might make it a bit easier on the eye. I'll up the fontsize to 12px as well.

I'll experiment anyway. Nice one.

By the way, four new kits is nothing compared to Manchester United. Did you see how they sold their soul to the corporates in the 90's?

Four kits is nothing. Not when you bring a kit out and play one game in it and lose 6-2 to Southampton and never wear it in a competitive match again because "the players couldn't see each other on the pitch".

I'm still laughing ten years on.

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MouseModerator
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Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #296428 - Thu Jul 27 2006 09:59 PM

Valid point and moving slightly off your topic. However Wimbledon produced more kits than Manchester United in the 90's.

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jonnymac1979
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Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: Mouse]
      #296433 - Thu Jul 27 2006 10:11 PM

I'm not sure about that mate. Yes, maybe home kits, but a look at the comparisons below will show you how many replica kits Manchester United brought out in the Nineties alone. Not that I'm trying to score points here at all. I mean a kit is a kit, it's what happens on the field that counts really!!!!

This website which I have linked to below is showing small diagrams of all kits produced in their history.

Wimbledon Kits

Manchester United Shirts

Any comparisons to Liverpool can be looked up at www.kitclassics.co.uk. besides, we have Adidas now instead of Reebok. A change of manufacturer surely necessitates a change of strip?

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jonnymac1979
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Loc: Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #296435 - Thu Jul 27 2006 10:15 PM

And sorry about moving off topic.

I was thinking about adding a section of random quotes for each manager from Bill Shankly onwards as new sections. Feedback from other sites suggests my visitors find the Gerard Houllier Random Quotes page quite funny.

With other managers Liverpool have had, I don't think any of them have come out with so many ridiculous soundbites so I might leave well alone, but certainly a Bill Shankly page could be incorporated with some serious quotes. The Houllier page is purposely supposed to be a bit lighthearted.

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evilmonkeyzz
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Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #296615 - Fri Jul 28 2006 08:36 PM

Quote:

What would you suggest then mate? Page 1, Page 2 etc... just keeps it simple, there is no description for each page, they're just GIFs. They are in not categories, as in a whole page of Steven Gerrard GIFs, a whole page of Xabi Alonso GIFs etc..... so I just called them by page number.




Yes, I can see what you are saying and why you have named them like that, would have done the same myself probably. It probably wouldn't work, but you could order them by season, decade, manager??

Josh

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Ambition makes you look pretty ugly
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy
http://www.last.fm/user/evilmonkeyzzz/


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DJ2
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Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: evilmonkeyzz]
      #296757 - Sat Jul 29 2006 12:41 PM

I'm not really a footy fan. However, this site looks very well done. The design is nice and looks professional (IMO). There could be more content and the images could be a lot bigger but the design is the important factor and I think it looks good.

if you want interactivity then php is the way to go and it's not too hard to learn (the basics at least).

keep up the good work.


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jonnymac1979
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Posts: 521
Loc: Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: DJ2]
      #296809 - Sat Jul 29 2006 08:16 PM

Hi mate, thanks for your kind words.

The content actually take a bit of time to design so that's why there isn't much at the moment. Give it another month or two and I want at least twelve pages on each section complete. I have another three pages of animations complete already I haven't uploaded yet. Little things to iron out before I do that.

I need to take a frame from the animations for the small static thumbnails to click on as they act as the link to the mini pages which holds the actual downloadable content. They are an ideal size of 100 x 80 as the animations were originally meant to be used as avatars on LFC forums which if you were to take a look around some they are being used as originally intended. Plus the animations are all 70 x (xx) in size.

The mobile wallpaper and desktop wallpaper sections have only been launched in the last fortnight and I expect these two ares to grow very quickly as I will concentrate on them a lot more than the animations for the time being. Again, small thumbnails, larger actual graphics.

Plus, I never launch an incomplete page. Until I have eight animations, sixteen mobile wallpapers and four desktop wallpapers, I will not put a new page live.

I intend to get a beginners book on PHP very shortly. I visited the PHP site but I couldn't make head nor tail of it. I might start a new thread in the web design section asking for any recommendations on books.

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emailuser
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Re: Liverpool Are Magic Revamped [Re: jonnymac1979]
      #296860 - Sun Jul 30 2006 12:50 AM

No one php book is ideal , Its best to get 2-3 as one book will explain certain things better than others and its handy to have a cross reference .

The php.net website only starts becomming useful after you have spent several months learning the basics .

Like yourself (when i was a php newbie) i found the php.net website totally useless .


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