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ultimatehandyman
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 257
Loc: Darwen, Lancs, UK
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Hi Everyone,
ultimatehandyman
Since posting my site on here several months ago it has undergone major changes, infact I have changed most of the 370 plus pages quite a few times each.
Having the site listed as readers website of WU in issue 111 was one of the highlights.
I have listened to all previous advice from members of this forum and others and feel it is time for a re-review of my site, to ensure I am heading in the right direction.
It is eleven months since I started tha site and I have had over 210,000 hits to date, not sure if this is good or bad but I think it is pretty good for a first site in it's first year!
Your comments are welcome
Thanks
UHM
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Nanook
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 995
Loc: South East England
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Loving the new logo, very cool!
While it looks good it seems to be very plain. But still good. The only problem I can see is the "Before" and "After" photos don't line up!
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Adventures in Oz
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bumpyride
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 160
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For starters the best thing about your site is that it has lots of excellent interesting "sticky" content with which to attract visitors to the site.
However, if it's okay, I've noted a few things:
The overall feel of the site is that it looks unfinished. The homepage doesn't really give a lot away, so users don't really get much of an impression for what your site has to offer. While there is a wealth of useful information on the site, first time visitors might be inclined to go elsewhere because it feels like it's a work-in-progress.
For example, if you could group together the links which are scattered around the page, such as the Disclaimer, DIY Forum and Contact together with the A-Z Contents / About me etc. that would tie things up nicely. At the moment, the Disclaimer etc. link looks very lost, as do the DIY Forum etc. links.
The search form also looks rather lost out there on it's own.
A big improvement might be to centre align your main table (I'm just looking at the homepage here) and set it's width to less that 96% - perhaps 80% for example. You could then give your page a background colour and that would give some form to the page.
I made a test page here:
http://jimpix.co.uk/images/wu/uhm3.htm
By grouping the non-DIY links at the top of the page, it helps give some balance to the page, and adding in a bit of colour to the nav elements also helps the user get a feel for things.
The thing that really struck me about your pages is that Front Page really does write very "cludgy" html which is not very intuitive or helpful.
For example, on defining the HTML for a DIY link it does this:
<p> <font color="#000000"> <b> <a href="PLASTERING_CENTRE.htm"><font color="#CC0000">Plastering</font></a> </b> </font> </p>
By using something like CSS / Cascading Style Sheets you could change that to something far more simple like:
<p> <a href="PLASTERING_CENTRE.htm">Plastering</a> </p>
You could then use your stylesheet to define the colour and appearance of your links, instead of putting it in your HTML.
This is another great piece of Front Page "bloat":
<p class="MsoBodyTextIndent" style="margin-left:0cm" align="center"> <span lang="EN-US"> </span><p class="MsoBodyTextIndent" style="margin-left:0cm" align="center"> <o:p> <span lang="EN-US"> <a href="http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/index.php"> <img border="0" src="DIY_Forum2.gif" ALT="DIY forum" width="154" height="30"> </a> <p align="center"> </p> ...
That could be replaced with:
<p align="center"> <a href="http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/index.php"> <img border="0" src="DIY_Forum2.gif" ALT="DIY forum" width="154" height="30"> </a> </p>
In the long run, it'd probably make life easier for you to learn about PHP (since I see you have PHP hosting as your forum uses it). You could then use PHP / include files / CSS to build up your pages. That will in the long run give you a lot more flexibility.
For example, by using include files, you could have a 500 page site, and each page could "include" a file which contains your navigation elements (e.g. your list of links on the left). If you then find you want to add in a new section, you could just add it into the single include file, and then upload that, and all other pages containing that include file will be automatically updated - you wouldn't need to upload them all over again.
There's plenty on the web about include files. I wrote an "article" about how I used them on my site here:
http://www.jimpix.co.uk/words/asp_includes.asp
Also, what might make your pages cleaner and leaner would be to drop the use of HTML tables to control layout, and use CSS instead. CSS could also be used to control the colour of your text, and the appearance of your links - just about anything in fact.
Apologies for plugging my site here, but...
This page uses CSS to control layout and appearance:
http://www.jimpix.co.uk/gb/
but, without the use of stylesheets, it looks like this:
http://www.jimpix.co.uk/gb/Default.asp?rcss=zeros
Anyway, those were my thoughts. I think you have a really great site - if you have time to teach yourself things like php includes / CSS to control appearance and layout that would really help, as would learning about HTML from the ground up, which would allow you to get rid of Front Page! I think FP is good for starters, but for such a big site with such a lot of great content, then there are better alternatives.
I used to use Dreamweaver myself, but having an old PC I found it too slow to run, so I got into writing html by hand, and it has really helped me to learn about html and how things bolt together.
W3schools is useful for starters:
http://www.w3schools.com/css/ http://www.w3schools.com/php/ http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_includes.asp
-------------------- http://www.jimpix.co.uk/
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Turbo
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 133
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Firstly brilliant content - but i think the front page being too cluttered would give a bad first impression. I would recommend changing the layout so it looks neater. Like this: http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30514312733.jpg&s=x11 Notables features are search moved to top of page and google search removed (its pointless) and logo moved to left. Left links made smaller and moved closer together and all links at top moved closer and categorised. One flash animation instead of two pictures showing before and after with all text on page working around the flash. Google ads having a heading: 'Useful links' above it - hopefully this will get your Google ads more clicks and make you more money.
Also i would put more keywords on your page like 'home improvements' and 'do it yourself' this would help people find yourself on Google and also mention what your forum is in the main content it will amke people want to go on it more.
-------------------- League One Football
Edited by Turbo (Wed Nov 02 2005 08:42 PM)
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TheFatControlleR
Forum Admin
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 6673
Loc: Megatripolis
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Although this is a personal choice, I would recommend having all external links open in a new browser window/tab, rather than (potentially) lose visitors to another site - not everyone uses the back button, moreso if they get waylaid elsewhere.
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TFC
'Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.' - Hunter S Thompson (1937-2005)
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bumpyride
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 160
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I used to think the same thing, until I heard that opening links to external sites more than likely just annoys users, or so says Jacob Nielson, a web usability guru:
from: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990530.html
Opening up new browser windows is like a vacuum cleaner sales person who starts a visit by emptying an ash tray on the customer's carpet. Don't pollute my screen with any more windows, thanks (particularly since current operating systems have miserable window management). If I want a new window, I will open it myself!
Designers open new browser windows on the theory that it keeps users on their site. But even disregarding the user-hostile message implied in taking over the user's machine, the strategy is self-defeating since it disables the Back button which is the normal way users return to previous sites. Users often don't notice that a new window has opened, especially if they are using a small monitor where the windows are maximized to fill up the screen. So a user who tries to return to the origin will be confused by a grayed out Back button.
-------------------- http://www.jimpix.co.uk/
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TheFatControlleR
Forum Admin
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 6673
Loc: Megatripolis
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I'm aware of Jacob Nielson's (and others') decrees (I refer to them myself, when it suits me ), hence the opening rider, '... this is a personal choice...'. 
But, with the advent, and acceptance of, tabbed browsing it's MHO that these theories could do with some revision.
As for users opening their own new windows (sans tabbed browsing) it's my guess that many a true newbie wouldn't be immediately aware that they could do this (I judge my own 'newbies' thinking on the type of questions we see on this forum).
As for small monitors; mmm, a tad dated me thinks.
We can each do our own research, taking in what Nielson, and other gurus have to say (clearly I'm no guru), but the bottom line is personal preference and choice. 
One thing I do know is that the vast majority of design briefs I get to read, regarding corporate sites, conclude that target="_blank", or equivalent, is desired. However, the vast majority leaves a sizable minority who believe otherwise. 
I merely offer possibilities, not diktats.
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TFC
'Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.' - Hunter S Thompson (1937-2005)
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bumpyride
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 160
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Good point - apologies if I appeared to be a bit grumpy. It wasn't my intention.
I suppose like you say, so much of making and using sites comes down to personal preference.
Perhaps there is room for a cheesy web related version of "one man's meat is another man's poison / one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist / one man's "open in a new window" is another man's "where am I - what happened"!
Jim
-------------------- http://www.jimpix.co.uk/
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TheFatControlleR
Forum Admin
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 6673
Loc: Megatripolis
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Hey Jim, I didn't perceive any grumpiness, sorry if my reply indicated such.
Everything you said was worthwhile and valid. Debate is the lifeblood of this board, and the Web Design area too. Hopefully our short volley will be of use to UHM (and others) in his desire to improve his site. 
As you say; one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist or, could that be, one mans Notepad is another mans Dreamweaver!!
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Nanook
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 995
Loc: South East England
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I have to say I hate sites which open links in new windows. My saying is "if the BBC doesn't do it, why should I?", the BBC has external links which it opens in the same window, if it works for them, and they spend lots of money finding the best thing to do in a situation, then it works for me.
Back on topic that design by Turbo looks very cool, and I like that idea.
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Adventures in Oz
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ultimatehandyman
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 257
Loc: Darwen, Lancs, UK
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the reviews, your opinions are always listened to and appreciated!
Nanook,
Thanks Greg for reviewing my site again. You were the first person to review my site when I originally posted it. The site has changed considerably since then, your advice is always welcome and spot on. Thanks for that!
Bumpyride,
Thanks Jim, I remember that you pointed me to the sitepoint forum, which is also great for web building advice. I agree with you totally about frontpage messing about with the html too much, but for now at least I will stick with it as it is fast and easy to use. I have learned some HTML but I am very slow.
Thanks for taking the time to make an example page, I will make some changes to my home page over the next few weeks and at the moment I am thinking about using some of your advice and some of Turbo’s advice. I don’t like backgrounds as I have tried a few and prefer it blank, google and other popular websites use a blank page and I feel it makes the page easier on the eyes.
I like the idea of CSS and will look into it when I get chance.
I actually made a tradesman and suppliers directory using PHP and used the php include line but somewhere along the line it screwed up and so I ditched the whole thing. There were over 500 pages and it took me a few weeks, think I’ll give PHP a wide birth lol.
You have gone to lots of trouble with your review and it is appreciated, I will re-read it all and absorb it when I have a little more time!
Turbo,
Thanks for the review and thanks for making an example page. I like the idea of the search box at the top of the page, I will have a play around with this when I re-do the home page. I am stuck with google search as it works well on my site as it gives people the chance to search the whole site, without me having to do a search in HTML, which I tried once and it did not work. I do get a little income from having it on also as it has sponsored links in the results.
I am working on the keywords and will add the two that you mentioned when I update the page.
I will animate the gif picture, but I am not sure about the 'Useful links' bit, I will have to check that it does not go against google’s terms of service.
TFC,
I did consider opening pages in new windows but I also feel that it annoys some people, but thanks for your input!
Thanks again to everyone!
Chez
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TheFatControlleR
Forum Admin
Reg'd: Fri
Posts: 6673
Loc: Megatripolis
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Quote:
... the BBC has external links which it opens in the same window, if it works for them... then it works for me...
Actually, that's a good point Greg, and one I do advocate; look around, find what you like, and adopt it! 
UHM: RE CSS, it is definitely worth getting to grips with it, even on a rudimentary level it can make life a lot easier for implementing global design changes.
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TFC
'Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.' - Hunter S Thompson (1937-2005)
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MarkHolah
regular
Reg'd: Mon
Posts: 40
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Apologies for carrying on the 'whether or not to make external links open in new browsers debate'. I am of the persuasion that external links should open in new windows especially if the web designer is using web diversion because the address of the original site stays in the address bar - well it does for IE.
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ultimatehandyman
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 257
Loc: Darwen, Lancs, UK
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time to have a look and help improve my site!
I have used some of Jim's (bumpyride) and Turbo's advice, Thanks again for going to the trouble to make an example page- much appreciated!
I will try and move away from frontpage in the future, although I will be stuck with it for a while until I am happy that I have enough content on my site!
The homepage has now been changed and I feel it look a lot better, as Jim and Turbo pointed out the links were all over, but are now in better places!
Thanks again
chez
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bumpyride
regular
Reg'd: Tue
Posts: 160
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Hi Chez,
nicely done - that looks loads better - the homepage is a lot more compact now, and easier to read.
Best wishes
Jim
-------------------- http://www.jimpix.co.uk/
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ultimatehandyman
regular
Reg'd: Sat
Posts: 257
Loc: Darwen, Lancs, UK
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Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I just wanted to thank all of the people that have helped with my site!
Since making the site I have been in web user magazine and computer active and a few weeks ago my site was listed in the Sunday times "In gear" supplement, you can read the article here- http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article1394808.ece
What started out as an hobby has now turned into a full time job almost and I spend more time working on my site than I do at work!
Thanks again to all the people on here that helped me out numerous times
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